I have a soft spot for Arturo Gatti. The only fighter I openly rooted for, the only fighter for whom I felt such heartbreak when he got whupped by Mayweather, stopped by Baldomir, stopped by Gomez -- and when he died.

Least essential rematch? How about Azumah Nelson vs. Jeff Fenech for the third time. More than 16 years after their second go-around. Nelson was nearly 50. Fenech was 44.

That's far worse than the Virgil Hill-Henry Maske rematch.

Good guy to have a soft spot for. I was really saddened by the loss of Corales, and to do this day haven't watched the Clottey fight.

That was a totally useless rematch. Duran-Camacho II? Duran was 50, Camacho 39, don't know if the first was a classic. I didn't even know they fought for a second time until recently, reading the Duran book.

Least essential rematch that hasn't happened yet: Barrera-Morales IV, maybe. Would I be surprised if it DID happen? Yes.

I can't claim this Shumenov joke, but hopefully its originator will show up tonight: "Isn't he that white guy who looks Chinese?"

The Clottey fight was tough to watch. That's why it's amazing to imagine Pacquiao taking on Clottey, considering back when Manny was at 126 and 130, I would've thought him far too small for Corrales at 135, much less the guys at 147.

I still remember waking up to the news that Corrales died, and then writing a memorial piece I wish I never had to write. Diego, like Arturo, deserved to enjoy the rest of his life considering what he gave in the ring.

The best thing about Nelson-Fenech 3 is that it happened years after Nelson had been inducted into the Hall of Fame.

I'm still trying to figure out whether Morales-Barrera IV is worse than Vazquez-Marquez IV.

Speaking of guys who clearly are enjoying their retirement, you mentioned Duran, who now looks like he ate the younger version of himself.

Beibut Shumenov, to me, is the light heavyweight Kid Diamond.

Well, I have a joke/story re: Beibut.

A few guys were at the fight on Friday night, one of them gets up and leaves under mysterious circumstances before the end of the Beibut/Campillo fight. When everyone meets up with him later, he asks "who won..the white guy?" Everybody says "what white guy?" This mysterious dude says "the white guy that looks Chinese." Somebody responds "what the fuck, you mean that fucking Mongolian dude?"

Anyway, it was kind of funny, perhaps you had to be there. I'll try to return later, I hope some of old timers bring some madness back to the open thread.

Chris Arreola is my favorite guilty pleasure, I know he'll never be a great (unless he hits the gym and loses some LBS) but he's so much fun to watch.

I used to be a major Mayorga fan too, but now he's moving to MMA like Herschel Walker and Ray Mercer...so his boxing days are probably behind him.

All time "soft spot": I always rooted for Jimmy Young, who never seemed to get his due even though he beat a prime Foreman and was more deserving of a decision than Leon Spinks was against a fading Ali. As for current fighters: I've been warming up to Alfonso Gomez since he got shellacked by Cotto. OK-- its really for nothing he's done in the ring (although I thought he looked the best I've seen him against Soto-Karass (another favorite) before the cut (and his bangs) got in the way). Actually its because he has a You Tube video on his web site where he solves a Rubik's cube to a Latin beat. Since I can never solve those things, he get braniac points from me for that. Chris DeMarco is another one I'm rooting for-- especially this week. But as a real dark horse-- how about Alexis Camacho-- who I've seen twice on ESPN and have had bad losses hung on him both times. After the last one he looked crushed.

Didnt even know Nelson and Fenech fought in 2008. Jones/BHop is a waste of time and money. But Good Lord thats a travesty. Fenech was done decades before and everyone knew it.

Any late rematches involving Duran/Camacho etc. fall into this category too. And last year a quick shot of a bloated and jowly Duran ringside made me think of a slightly younger Buddy Hackett.

Since that topic is awful depressing Tim, how bout a slightly more positive one along the same line--- who's your favorite fighter that retired by choice TOO early and likely had more decent (perhaps not great)fights left? Jeff Fenech is certainly NOT one of them. I'm thinking more along the lines of Kostya Tszyu. I'm sure there are more.

Since I was a witness to the statement in question last week, I wont comment. Since we were sitting pretty much close to ringside amongst a large contingent of flag waving Beibut fans, they also may think I'm guilty by assoication with that particular rapscallion. Kazakistan has a cool looking flag though. (I thought Beibut lost the fight, but could conceive that he could piece together 6/7 rounds on a scorecard-- the deciding judge was ridiculous however.) I was sitting directly behind two guys who I think were from the Beibut camp (they followed him into the ring at least)-- and they were commenting during the fight to the effect that Beibut was doing nothing especially in those middle/late rounds.

I don't know why but I always root for the greatest player in that particular sport. I rooted for Jordan every year he played. Eventhough I am a Wizards fan. I root for the Yankees becuase I still feel Arod will go down as one of if not the best baseball player to ever play(that is when the Chisox arent in the playoffs). I root for Kobe. I root for Lebron. Hell I even root for Usain Bolt just to see records broken. I root for the Caps because 1 Im from Dc and 2 they have Ovechkin. Ill even root for the Colts on Sunday over the cinderella story of the saints because I think we are witnessing the greatest year for a single NFL player, ever. ...

That is why I root for Floyd. I know many people hate him, but im not one of them. He very well could go down as one of the greats and if he beats Mosley and Pac man(if they ever fight) Ill consider him the best boxer I have ever personally seen.

2. I rematch that would be worse then that is....

Toney vs Rahman 3

3. I got nothing

Guessing game: How many days til PBF signs the contract? If at all... I say next monday.

Do you think the deciding Shumenov judge thought he was making benefit glorious nation of Golden Boy?

I have an epic soft spot for Cotto. He's such a gent. I was still going for pac when they fought, but it was bittersweet.

I also love Victor Oganov, a middleweight Russian KO artist fighting out of Australia who's now one of Andre Dirrell's sparring partners. He's the ultimate badass. He's speaks about himself in the third person in a thick russian accent. Actual example: "Ven Victor Oganov vas a boy, Victor Oganov did some bad things."

Apparently Haye/Ruiz is going to be on the same night as Jones/Hopkins 2. That's pretty handy. I just hope Jones and Hopkins are on first, obviously the elderly have to get to bed early. Jones will probably be asleep before the final bell, and then Hopkins can watch the Ruiz fight to help himself nod off.

Soft spot for would be Emmanuel Augustus. That dude ust fights because he loves the sport. No one smiles and bounces like him inside the ring, no one fought more times on opponents turf and get ridiculous decisions more than he did, he makes an awesome fight everytime (i think he's the only guy able to cut floyd jr.) and his war with Mickey Ward is one of the most intensed 10 rounds i've seen. Not many OLD judges like his style but I do.

Least essential matches, hopkins and rjj, isnt that a lot like Floyd vs Shane? I mean it's years too late. but lemme see what can top that? Campas vs Camacho beats that, I think.

For some reason I havent seen Borat yet. Beibut shumenov sounds funny already, and Mongkolchai Singmanasak

Tszyu is a great example. He really hurt himself by fighting just once a year late in his career. I still think he had some good fights left in him. (Hell, I still don't understand why he quit against Hatton. Theoretically, he still could have been in the fight on the scorecards.)

Calzaghe, too. Calzaghe could have kept it up for a while longer -- his physical assets really didn't seem in decline. I think Lewis could have kept fighting as well. He was out of shape in his last fight and I don't think that was the real Lewis against Vitali.

It does turn out that fewer people quit while they're ahead than stay in too long in this sport, sadly.

If you two would kindly fill us in on the highlights of the Vegas get together, I'd be MOST interested.

I say Mayweather signs it by Friday. I'm guessing it's the usual Floyd "get 'em talking" junk. I don't have any reason to believe the fight's in jeopardy, but it's surprising that Richard Schaefer was bitching today.

Funny, insightful stuff so far. Keep it going!

Honestly Tim, I am still piecing it together too. We didn't even get to see the whole card because the main events led off for most part, the night was no longer young, the place more than half emptied and only then did things get really strange. And I still dont know the whole story.

General consensus (or at least my view) was Lara was not terribly impressive but Grady couldn't take advantage but for a moment when he rocked him. The Beibut fight was split--- BMc thought he won close. I thought that he lost and I think it generally leaned that way. Not outrageous, but another example of where the "house" fighter gets the nod.

And JPF, BMc and his bud, and Steve are all cool dudes. We should follow up with a bout under the TQBR umbrella down the road. That would be awesome.

1. Ray Mancini. I always loved "Boom Boom" as a kid, and I can't imagine the thoughts and guilt he felt after the Duk Koo Kim fight. Mancini always fought with incredible heart, and a part of me thinks part of that heart was broken after the Kim fight.

2. I'm not sure I want to see Marquez-Vazquez IV. The trilogy was among the greatest in boxing history, and both fighters gave so much. I wonder if they can muster the courage and strength to match the first three fights, and I fear for their future health if they can.

3. Something tells me Beibut sucked the tit of Patricia Morse Jarman before the fight Friday night, and then made cheese that he brought back to his home country. (Sorry, that was bad, I know!)

I think the fact that my first trip to Vegas in my not so insubstantial lifetime was to see Beibut Shumenov fight may be the biggest joke of all!

Along the lines of PK-- I got another one. Sean O'Grady. Thought certainly involved in no tragedy like Boom Boom, he was never the same after his Dad's power play failed miserably. But he had some skills (the Jim Watt and Hilmer Kenty fight showed that). Not a bad commentator throught the years, but his career ended for the most part in his early 20's I think.

EDub: I don't begrudge you your PBF admiration. But I do think that, IF the fight with SSM comes off, and PBF emerges victorious, such a win is of lesser value coming in 2010 than it would have been 5 years or so ago when answering the "is he a great of all time"? PBF started his career as as a house afire-- even he biggest critics today will grant you that. But the last several years of "carefully chosen" opponents diminishes him somewhat.

Ovechkin is great and fun to watch. I'd take him and his gunslinging Brett Farve style over Sid the Kid (who is more like cerebral Peyton Manning) if I were an NHL GM.

Tim,

I can tell you that I had a blast in Vegas, considering I had to split my time with a gang of deviants I hold you responsible for knowing and my family.

WF is a class act, and I'm glad he made the trip all the way to Vegas. BMac is basically a maniac with a heart of gold. And we're all familiar with the legend of Steve, which definitely grew on this trip. Steve had a touch of either alcohol poisoning or dehydration that he had to be treated for....he blames me and BMac. Sorry, but WF's peer pressure is 2nd to none, I blame him.

We need to get Steve in here. Not sure what else I can spill as some of it may be classified.

JPF-- can we tell em about the part where Tyson does the drum solo to "Hard Rock legend" Phil Collins "In the Air Tonight" after punching Steve in the nose, or I am hallucinating that part?

1.) Arthur Abraham. The whole smurf boxer phase cracked me up. He was funny in the showtime fight preview series and has dynamite in his gloves.

2.) I am hoping B Hop RJJ is as bad as it gets this generation. I mean coming off a first round KO. I would rather see Homer Simpson rematch Drederick Tattum.

3.) I have nothing to add, just go to you tube and search for "sexy drown watch"

apparently, someone got kicked out of the Hard Rock and got close to alcohol poisoning.

anyone stolen a tiger?

Alex - I also have a soft spot for Cotto. I was up in the air about who to root for when he fought Pacman, and I ended up rooting for Cotto when the fight started. I hated to see him lose the way he did, and I really came very close to crying. (I was really happy for Pac, though.)

Tim - I was thinking Calzaghe for a fighter who quit when he still had a few good fights left... but I thought maybe it was just me. Glad you mentioned him. That said, I'd rather him retire too early than too late. A person can only get hit in the head so many times, and that one time too many is different for every fighter.

BP-- if Cotto retired today, would he fall into the "too soon" category? I'm inclined to say yes.

Yeah, I'll be up for a Vegas trip at some point for sure. It's just a matter of picking the right fight so I don't pay out my ass but also am not going to a crappy card.

East Coast meet-ups are easier.

Abraham is another guy who I will root for every time. He seems like a decent guy and his obsession w/ fame in America is strangely endearing. Plus I just really like watching him punch people in the face.

We got ourselves another suffering Wizards fan, IR.

Also, I live in DC but am from Indiana, so I'll be all about the Colts Sunday.

Furthermore, Floyd must be destroyed. (h/t Cato the Elder) Fuck him and his Potemkin Village victories

I hear you Tim. This was supposed to be the Berto/Mosely trip until 10 days ago. But we still went through with it given the plans were already committed for the most part. In some ways, pushing it back to the Flash's Pinoy Power card next month would have been better from a fight perspective.

+1 for Potemkin reference.

I totally don't use the +/- feature on this site in a systematic way. I just sort of arbitrarily -1 people who use racial or homophobic slurs, and the +1 is used with no pattern at all.

Abraham is obsessed with fame in America? Given his fan friendly style, I want to like him, I really do. But the Bob Mackie prefight outfits have got to go, especially after coming back from the cheesy glitz of Vegas. The Scorpions can stay, however, as his ring walk band.

Wizards fan? edub? they are in the talks for McGrady's expiring contract but they want escola in the deal. Butler and Jamison may be included in the contract.

from non-existence to playoff appearances to mediocrity to non existence... ahh the story of our Wiz Fandom!

I can say that Vegas was off the hook & no one left missing a tooth. We hit the ground running. Upon check in, we proceeded to the Monte Carlo Brew Pub were we consumed alcohol like it was nobody's business. Next stop Hard Rock... The Hard Rock is a bit fuzzy. I found myself more interested in the house dancers near ringside then the actual fights.

I have taped the Shumenov fight & plan on watching the next few days. I thought he won a close fight but was working on a bottle of cognac coupled with a Red Bull/Vodka. Now mind you I was sitting next to JPF... there is no quit in that dude.

I believe there were a few drinks spilled but after that I have to take the 5th.
Next stop New York New York... 9 Fine Irishmen Pub. The night was still quite young for Vegas. I can't even remember how many drinks we had. The funniest part of the night might have been the LONG ASS walk back to Caesars. We encountered all kinds of weirdo's & drunks. One nameless dude damn near fell asleep walking down the steps leading to Caesars. Day 2 was a little more mellow but fun none the less.

WF like JPF stated is real classy guy. JPF was as advertised, one cool cat. It was a privilege to get the chance to hang out with such cool dudes.

Sorry if this doesn't read well I'm working on 2 hours sleep.

John Wall. John Wall. John Wall. Oh please John Wall.

Tim,

Thank you for the +1, I think that is my first. Although, a good friend of mine Tuco got one from Funky Badger, I think.

BTW, starting a group called "the Potemkin Village People"..you want in? I have openings for everything except the Indian.

Another year in the lottery... JOHN WALL!? We aren't too lucky. Passed on Dejuan Blair? Picked Kwame? darn.

@bmac

thanks for the report soldier!

If Cotto retired now, it would probably be too soon, and I'm sure I'd be bummed about it. But better today than one fight too late.

And I completely agree w/ you on Abraham's wardrobe. Egads, those robes are awful! He's mentioned several times that he wants to be a star here, and he's such a kick-ass boxer that I'll forgive any/all of his fashion mistakes.

You did just fine. I thank you for your tale.

For your contributions to Open Thread. Because of those contributions, Open Thread lives on to March.

(I'm not shutting down the discussion, I'm just declaring Open Thread alive for longer.)

If Cotto retired now I think it would be more of a 'maybe' than a 'too soon'. Who knows how he'll look next time out? He got beat down pretty badly, twice.

And they weren't the kind of shock KOs that you can come back from like Lewis did. Lewis has def hung around too long in the broadcasting business...

My Wolves have dibs on Wall! After the Vikes gave the Saints a trip to the Super Bowl, it's about time Minnesota sports gets a break.

I have a soft spot for Kendall Holt for whatever reason, even with his recent legal troubles. I tend to pull for the guys with troubled backgrounds, and Holt definitely has that. He is flying under the radar a bit now, but I hope he'll get himself back in hunt for a light welterweight belt.

Holt pisses me off -- he could be so much better than he is. He just shits the bed sometimes in fights.

He's in a title eliminator soon though, is Holt, and that would position him to fight for the belt Urango has now.

Yeah Tim, he reminds me a bit of Clottey in that regard. He just seems to lose focus sometimes. In that Bradley fight, I kept wondering what he was waiting for. Somehow though I think gets back in the thick of things this year. He could handle anyone in that division.

1) Jean Pascal, I like the way the guy fights and his gutsy displays against Froch and Diaconu. He's also a nice chap and has a smoking missus....!!!

2) Holyfield-Ruiz IV......'the encore'......

I'm pretty sure many of you know I have a soft spot for Floyd. Part of it is that everyone seems to hate him so I'm always defending him (some of the criticism against him is a bit exaggerated). Spend enough time defending someone and you grow invested in that person. Same thing happened with Peyton Manning - I hated the guy in college (I am an FSU fan), started defending him against people who were saying that Ryan Leaf should go #1 that year, and I root for Manning to this day.

Other guys I have a soft spot for are the New Wave of Cubans (Gamboa, Rigondeaux, Solis, and to a lesser extent Lara; not so much Dorticos, Despaigne, or Yan Barthelemy), Mat Korobov, and James Kirkland. Oh, and Tim Bradley and Paul Williams. I'm just a big softy, really.

Beibut Shumenov number one thief in all of Kazakhstan! He steal my ugly goatmilking wife then steal fight from Campillo. Maybe he steal head movement from trainer and become number one boxer in all Kazakhstan!

Open thread, very nice!

I said, "Probably." I'm definitely glad that Cotto's next fight is against Yuri Foreman and not someone w/ KO power punches. Even though Foreman will be the naturally bigger guy, I don't think he can *hurt* Cotto. I think it's a great opportunity to see the long-term (middle-term?) damage done by Margarito and Pacman.

I'm concerned about what Margarito may have done to Cotto. Everyone talks about it in terms of how it my have affected him mentally, but what about physically? That kind of beating (presumably) w/ loaded gloves can have serious long-term consequences. Even w/o loaded gloves the two KO's are a concern, but that adds a dimension to the question of whether or not it would be too soon.

Which leads me to another boxer I have a soft spot for: Shane Mosley. I have never liked Margarito. There is something about him that I can't quite put my finger on, and the loaded gloves thing just confirmed my total dislike of the guy. Days before Mosley-Margarito I had already declared that I'd just about want to kiss Mosley if he'd KO Margarito. Add the illegal hand wraps to the equation, and Mosley definitely earned soft spot status. (I wrote I Sugar Shane and taped it to my desk for about a week - in part because my husband rolled his eyes every time he walked by.)

I'm right there w/ you regarding Gamboa and Rigondeaux, and Cuban boxers in general.

I know what you mean about defending someone so much that you end up rooting for them. I'm not there w/ PBF, but I totally see how that could happen.

My main soft spot would be for Darchinyan. I know he's regressing technically (even by his standards), but he's always entertaining and to see a swarming little guy with such braggadacio more often than not back it up behind dynamite fists? Love it.

Didn't Valuev have a rematch clause for Haye? The first fight's only months old and the potential rematch already strikes me as dizzyingly inessential.

I'm pretty sure that Valuev gets a shot at the winner of Haye-Ruiz, thereby guaranteeing a useless rematch. Go WBA!

Exactly man. We keep getting chances to build around a great nucleus, and then they throw it away. All we should be worried about keeping is Butler, Jamison, Haywood, and Miller as a 6th man. I still cant believe we traded the 5th pick this year for Randy Foye.

Tmac would be alright about two years ago. Infortunately I think he is way past his prime for the kind of player he is. We should just drop every game from here on out so we can have the best chance to pick up Wall.

We've dropped Richard Hamilton, Chris Webber, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, and all became all-stars after they left.

The rematch clause was in the contract with Haye -- not sure if it transfers over to Ruiz should Ruiz beat Haye. Valuev is currently ranked #4 by WBA.

Wolves fan here (yes, some of us are still out there). If Rubio ever comes over and plays up to the hype, that trade is going to look very bad for the Wizards. Then again, this is the Wolves we are talking about, so that probably will not happen

I hate the fucking NBA!! & David Stern can eat shit for helping my beloved Sonics relocate to a shit like Okie City........ thanks. That's all.

HA! I'm just a bitter SOB...