Although we waited forever and ever and ever and ever, a news release from Golden Boy Promotions in conjunction with Mayweather Promotions Friday tells us that last month's pay-per-view fight garnered 1.25 million pay-per-view buys and the second-highest non-heavyweight gross earnings in PPV history.
But what does it all mean? That is, in the ongoing "who's the bigger star" debate with Manny Pacquiao, what does this figure tell us? What were the variables that made the buy rate higher or lower than perhaps it should have been? My short answers to those two questions: At least in the United States, it's still Mayweather; and there are variables in both directions, but I am of the mind that this figure -- while excellent for any boxing pay-per-view -- is lower than anyone wanted.
A note on veracity, before we proceed: Since the networks usually announce these figures, not the promoters, there was some understandable skepticism about this figure, as there was to a far lesser degree with the Manny Pacquiao-Shane Mosley numbers. So I picked up a phone and sent some e-mails. I couldn't get anyone at HBO to comment on the record, but an HBO official said that "these numbers are indeed accurate." We'll talk more about this in a moment, too.
Richard Schaefer, Golden Boy's CEO, had predicted beforehand that the fight would do 1.5 million buys. Promoters are always overhyping estimated PPV buys, so that's no surprise. Originally, I thought 1.5 million was a realistic figure. That, though, was before we knew they would be charging $59.95 (standard) and $69.95 (high-def), or $5 more than any pay-per-view ever. And that was also before the undercard fight that had everyone buzzing most -- Erik Morales vs. Lucas Matthysse -- lost Matthysse to an illness.
In this economy and with people dropping their cable and satellite subscriptions in record numbers, that's a very impressive number. Of course, those conditions have been in existence for past pay-per-views (although the subscription rates have been dropping ever-more over time), so it is not, overall, extraordinary for it to have mustered those buy rates compared to other PPVs.
That it ranks so high on the gross earnings list isn't a surprise. A little basic math will tell you that $5 more than usual on the asking price on every one of those 1.25 million buys is going to add up to a lot of money. This is something for Mayweather and his team's pocketbooks to celebrate in the short-term, but I think it's a bad deal in the long-term. Maybe time will tell a different story and people will grow to embrace the higher fees, but I have to think that the extra $5 turned off any number of fans who might have been thinking of buying it -- in part because I saw a fair number of people in the boxosphere saying that the price hike was the final straw for them not purchasing a card they were on the fence about. Some of them might have been lying, but I believe some of them, too. I suspect that the number of people they lost for the hike doesn't equal the amount of raw cash they gained for it. It's just that in the long-term, fewer people watching boxing equals a smaller number of eyeballs who even will consider buying the next show. Shrinking the audience is not a good idea for the health of the sport.
The undercard had to -- had to -- have helped the number of buys. Saul Alvarez is one of the boxers who does tip-top ratings for HBO. Morales is a legend who does respectable PPV numbers by himself on small independent shows. That Morales' opponent Matthysse fell through hurt the undercard effect, I'm sure of it (the boxosphere got a lot of "not buying the card now" remarks after that happened), but Morales being there at all with Alvarez on Mexican Independence Day weekend surely drove at least some buys.
And this is the part where we get to the Mayweather-Pacquiao comparison. In his last fight, Pacquiao did better numbers than did Mayweather, if promoter Top Rank is to be believed. I bet the Mayweather camp isn't happy about that one bit. There were various stories circulating for weeks about why the Mayweather-Ortiz figures were delayed, with one of them being that they thought they could equal or surpass Pacquiao's last fight. (If the issue was the IRS deal, well, I guess we should all be happy for Floyd that it got worked out. Happy IRS Deal Day, Floyd! America is proud of you.)
But that Pacquiao fight was against Shane Mosley, a relatively known name outside boxing circles, with preview shows on CBS. Ortiz is another boxer who's done good ratings on HBO, and the fight got a boost via an HBO deal with Time Warner for broader promotion. But of the last several opponents Pacquiao and Mayweather have faced -- Mosley, Antonio Margarito, Mosley again, Miguel Cotto, Juan Manuel Marquez and Joshua Clottey -- all of them except Clottey had at least some PPV track record, where Ortiz had none. On the other hand, despite Ortiz' lower profile, I do think that the perception that Ortiz had more of a chance than some of the other Pacquiao and Mayweather opponents made him something of an asset. There are no apples to compare to apples here.
As much as I personally prefer Pacquiao to Mayweather, and as much as their respective most recent fights give an edge to Pacquiao, the fact remains that in every fight where Pacquiao and Mayweather have faced a common opponent (Mosley, Marquez, Ricky Hatton, Oscar De La Hoya), Mayweather has fared better. I don't think Pacquiao has benefited from coming after Mayweather most of those times; Mosley, for instance, was coming off the loss to Mayweather and a draw to Sergio Mora, which hurt his marketability as a Pacquiao opponent. The only fight where Mayweather followed Pacquiao was with Marquez, and Marquez' own marketablity was enhanced by his two excellent fights with Pacquiao, rather than diminished by bad losses. If Pacquiao does better numbers against Marquez in November than Mayweather did, I might be inclined to see this differently -- although Marquez' game effort in a bad loss to Mayweather not only helped raise his profile but may have also made him an opponent against whom fans want Pacquiao to compete. We'll see. I think things might be swinging Manny's way. But until convincing evidence emerges rather than glimmers that go against the overall trends, I'll be of the mind that Mayweather is the bigger star of the two in the United States.
Of course, all of this is a bit like living in a remote cabin and trying to tune the radio to listenable stations, because most of it is indecipherable static. Are we listening to "More Than A Feeling," or is it one of any number of the current pop hits of the past couple years that have "party" in the title? There are just too many variables to make any strong conclusions, and what signals are available are weak.
A note on the veracity of the figures. Any time it takes forever for PPV figures to come out, there are going to be skeptics about how good the numbers are. That's fair. Anytime a promoter rather than a network releases a PPV figure, there are going to be skeptics, which also is fair. And Mayweather's tendency to inflate his own value is going to lead to some skepticism here, too. Beforehand, the figures were reported as widely different by several journalists: Steve Kim said he "heard" that it was 850,000, a figure he backed off of as not his own even though he threw it out there, while Chris Mannix reported that it was 1.15 million and is sticking to it. FightHype came in higher than the official number. None of them ever cited a named source or even the allegiance of the unnamed sources they cited, other than Mannix saying he had spoken to a source with "direct knowledge" of the number, a virtually meaningless detail about said source but better than some of the others.
Subsequently, it's worth noting that at least two writers -- including myself, obviously, but only because I had the day off from my regular gig -- made the time to try and find out from HBO what their take was, and reported it as such. I'm obviously critical a good deal of writers relying heavily on anonymous sources, but I've always also said that if they have to be used (and sometimes they do) that the allegiance or affiliation of that source must be disclosed. I've done so. You can continue to be skeptical about the figure considering that no one at HBO has spoken on the record about this if you choose. But if you won't take an anonymous HBO official's word for it, then you damn sure better go back and cast serious, serious doubt on the Pacquiao-Mosley figure, because I don't recall seeing any anonymous Showtime officials speaking on this at all. Somehow I don't think that will happen, because some of the people disbelieving the 1.25 million figure are also some of the most pro-Top Rank people there are.
And if you doubt even an official at HBO is telling the truth about what Golden Boy claims, then you have to go back and view every previous HBO or Showtime figure as a lie. Hey, they might be. We've always really relied upon their official pronouncements. But absent extensive reporting from numerous credible journalists where everyone arrives at a similar or identical figure, there is no better figure than the 1.25 million we have now for Mayweather-Ortiz or any of the other HBO PPV/Showtime PPV figures we've received from the networks, because 850,000 or 1.15 million or at least 1.3 million all comes from sources with even less credibility, since we know nothing about who they are. But so might everything else be a lie, too, says the philosophical skeptic.
i'm fed up with the comments that the reason why the pacquiao mayweather fight won't happen is that manny don't like to take the test. on the contrary, money is very reluctant to face pacman. the brown kamikaze fighter already agreed to the demand of 14 days cutoff but the always defensive black fighter changed his mind saying he wanted blood tests up to the fight yet he never complained with the18 days cutoff in his mosley fight knowing that shane used steroids before. tygart concluded that both fighters were clean during fight time, therefore tygart and mayweather believe that an 18 days cutoff is accurate enough to make a reliable assessment that both fighters involved are clean during fight time. blood tests be a random one or not should be at least done until a day before the fight if the real intention is to catch a thief. one more thing, why is it that urine tests were administered to ortiz and mayweather considering that tygart and floyd believe that such tests are not accurate to detect the presence of illegal enhancing drugs??? funny people, where is common sense here??? stop that ludicrous blood tests! this a big insult to the ordinary intelligence of relevant boxing fans! just adhere to nsac regulations on drug tests,,, just plain and simple to create an honest situation!
Tim, I have always considered you one of the more astute reporters in the boxosphere and this article supports that opinion. I have but one comment...and I am certain that this already crossed your mind. Mark Taffet is the HBO PPV executive. His name nor that of any other HBO official appears on the press release from Mayweather Productions and Golden Boy. Now let's look back. In every fight to date that HBO has promoted via PPV, Taffet is the name and the voice of HBO who announces these numbers. His absence...and that of every other official at HBO...is the story here. In other words, this number is promoter talk. Not official.
I'm with you Tim, in that it's difficult to ascertain exactly who is the bigger star in the U.S., and that the supposedly "raw" numbers should be taken for what they are, which is indicators, but not necessarily proof. At least that's how I read your take. Either way, it's fair to note that Floyd seems to try a lot harder to sell himself as a superstar than Manny does. I'd think Manny has the advantage at the box office, but I haven't looked up any numbers for that. Interesting stuff though, especially in light of what you were saying to me about HBO the other day.
Let's not forget about one other fact and reason why Floyd got respectable PPV buys when he fought Ortiz: He hyped his fight by telling in a press conference weeks before his fight that he was fighting Pacquiao next. He used Pacquiao's name to hype his fight. He bragged and tried his best to make everyone in that press conference to believe that he's fighting Pacquiao next after Ortiz, you could see it in his face. The press bought it, his foolish fans bought it, and some Pacquiao fans bought it. It was well publicized. What wasn't well publicized was when during the last press conference prior to his fight, a reporter asked him about him (Floyd) saying Pacquiao was going to be next and Floyd denied ever saying it, that Pacquiao was next. So a lot of people didn't know that Floyd showed cowardice and that he wasn't going to really fight Pacquiao next. Thus the outcome of the PPV numbers. People bought his fight because they wanted to see how Floyd would fare against a strong southpaw, thinking that that fight with Ortiz was a prelude for Manny Pacquiao. Bottomline, Floyd can't take all the credit for the outcome of his PPV. The god of assholes is indeed a smart promoter and everyone of his fans are just too foolish to believe his lies.
Still waiting for the official PPV from Showtime on PAC-Mosley. Ain't buying Arum's at least 1.3 million number. It's been over 6 months. It's so obvious PAC- Mosley did under 1 mil.
Tim Starks is a well respected legitimate reporter for the New York Times and reached out to HBO and got confirmation on Maywether-Ortiz doing $1.25 million. I challenge Mr Starks to use his connections to emplore Showtime to release the " official" numbers for PAC- Molsey. It probably did Clottey numbers around 700,000 buys, cause I know Filipinos who said they wouldn't buy PAC-Molsey. I'm Black and my wife is Filipino, so I'm piped in to the Filipino culture. The public demands the truth, something which Arum is Not capable of delivering.
nashingun the writer said an official from HBO said the numbers are accurate meanwhile Pacquaio-Mosley numbers still haven't been released its been 6 months. After some media research the actual numbers for the Mosley fight came to 785 000 buys not the 1.3 million that Bob Arum was claiming. No one really cares what you want as no one really cares that I won't accept the Mosley pac numbers unless from SHowtime. Marquez-Mayweather did do 1.1 million your numbers probably come from an examiner.com reporter everyone else is quoting 1.1 million as far as I am aware those numbers were officially released from HBO
i agree. double standards huh... and many claims USADA is the cleanest body to govern this tests. but tygart has previously sided with floyd jr that pac could have used PED, the same reason arum never wanted USADA for biased views. now every calls pac ducker when the one who kept increasing his demands is floyd from dictating pac should only train in US, USADA is the only body to do the test and now a bigger purse? i dont know if you can add more to his demands and the fight can still go on. much from blind floyd fanatics.
@Fe'Roz Hey there. Thanks for the kind words. I could offer an explanation for why HBO wasn't involved with the release, but I'd be violating a confidence. Suffice it to say that the HBO official I quoted is someone in a position to know. Whether you believe the Mayweather+Golden Boy+anonymous HBO official or not is up to you. But as I said, it's a more credible combination of sources than trusting Arum by himself on Pacquiao-Mosley.
@PatrickConnor That's my take indeed -- there are indicators aplenty, some for Pac and some for Floyd. I see more indicators for Floyd, right now, domestically.
Dude your hypocrisy is just really distressing Manny uses Floyd's name to hype his fights but that's fine right? The only foolish fans are pacquaios die hard fans who seem to get all caught up everytime manny says something even though he contradicted a previous statement. He regularly says he agrees to RBt only to later say Floyd's not the commissioner. Floyd said Manny's next and then clarified if manny takes the RBT is that understood? You are basing your whole argument around a simple contradiction what about the multitudes of contradictions coming from Team manny? People bought his fight because he was fighting a guy 10 years younger than him who on paper looked like a guy who could push Floyd after a 16 month layoff people bought the fight also beause the under card was very good. Yes he is a smart promoter so is Manny he hides behind a PR team and Bob Arum and lies while his fans like you continue their act of hypocrisy and selective amnesia
@Smoovswan I'm not for the NYT, but yeah, I do some reporting in the world for respected organizations, such as CQ.
My connections are minimal, but I'm surprised nobody's gotten Showtime to say ANYTHING about the correct Pac-Mosley figure.
Promoters are liars and if you don't trust Arum, more so that you can't trust Schaefer or any other promoter also, especially the Mayweather people. Just to share with you, here in the Philippines in my town of Bulacan, 1/5 of all the households who have cable buy every Pacquiao fight on PPV. And the people in our cable company says that it's like that in other towns in the country as well. The whole Philippines is tuned in on every Pacquiao fight, be it cable or on delayed telecast tv. Add to that the people around the world and those who are there in the U.S. plus many other non-Filipino Pacquiao fans. I believe it's not that great a number but I know it is really that respectable. Even without hype, Arum and Pacquiao can sell their fights unlike guys like Floyd Mayweather. One reason Floyd got his PPV numbers was because he used the line "Manny Pacquiao, yes you're next!" to hype his fight. Well that was a lie and we all know Floyd had us all fooled. He was bragging when he said that and then when asked about it weeks later before the fight, he denied and lied about ever saying it. Now I wonder why they didn't publicize his denial and cowardice when he denied it (which was actually caught on video) as much as they publicized him saying Pacquiao was next. PPV my ass. Floyd wasn't even able to fill the MGM arena.
@RajaKumar I've never seen that 785,000 figure before.
Tim, This is not an either or. This is only about this fight. And the indisputable fact (to date) is that there is no official public statement from HBO. Thus nothing official.
We can only speak about what we know and we both no that no one is going on record to make this official and/or to validate the reported results.
As for Showtime/Top Rank, if we don't know those numbers, then we don't know them. I can live with that. If Arum says they were one thing and Showtime is mum, then I have to live with Showtime's silence being deafening.
Promoters promote and both TR and GB do it well. I think the latter is considerably better in cultivating and nurturing the audience and the markets for their fighters, but that is only my opinion. I also think they bring their fighter along better but then again the operative words are "I think".
I do know some of the principals in this mix and there are certainly differences oin philosophy and thus appraoch between not only the two companies but the principals (Oscar/ Schaefer and Arum/duBoef/Moretti) as well.
But I digress
I may be a fan of Pacquiao but not Arum's. And I only talk about things I believe has proof or I can show proof of. Why don't you scour your memory and tell me when Pacquiao used Mayweather's name to hype his fight? To further prove my point, here's an article I read several weeks ago. You may have missed it because unlike you, I read boxing articles everyday. You obviously missed this news or deliberately didn't read it: http://www.boxinginsider.com/columns/phloyd-mayweather-hypocrite-liar-and-fraud/?fb_comment_id=fbc_5006835870124_766465_5006839312124 After reading it maybe you can tell who is the hypocrite and who has selective amnesia.
@RajaKumarWhen did Pacquiao ever used Floyd Mayweather's name to hype his fight? Does he go on video ranting about Floyd? Pacquiao only talks about Floyd when asked about that coward. You are the one who misunderstood. Even before Floyd braggingly said he'd fight Pacquiao next, Pacquiao's camp has already agreed to King Floyd already. What simple contradiction are you talking about? There was no misunderstood contradiction on Floyd's part. He was clearly asked (a week before his fight with Ortiz) about his claim that Pacquiao was next. And guess what Floyd said? "No, I didn't say that, You and the media should not put words into my mouth. I didn't say that at all." Now if Floyd answered during that time "Only if Pacquiao agrees to the tests" then you have a point. But he didn't say that when asked about his claim. You obviously are reffering to Floyd's post fight statements dude, when the fight with Ortiz was already over! I was talking about Floyd's statements a week before he fought Ortiz. You obviously didn't understand what I was talking about earlier. Here, watch this legit link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5-c29TRMbQ&feature=player_embedded
you sure love floyd that much huh. manny was selling big fights even before floyd came out of retirement. and now you're saying its hypocrisy, that is manny using floyds name? you blind? the world didnt need floyd in any give time. pacquiao's greatness came from dela hoya, hatton, cotto... ect fights. no one near floyds name there. floyd only went out selling his statement "i want to fight pacquiao" then cherry picked a lightweight marquez pretending he is a challenge in welter from pacquiao. now you tell me its pac doing this show? come one man, i think you're looking at the mirror and you're seeing your own shet.
@JustineManaco you really don't know how these things work do you. The tickets were expensive anyway and promoters have to buy up most of the seats and then sell them on so yet another argument that is really ignorant. Floyd chose not to buy the tickets and then sell them on and GBP chose to do the same as well hence why his fight at the live gate wasn't a sell out it still did very well. The fact is Manny is using Floyd and had Floyd been retired back in 2009 Manny the "floyd killer" would be irrelevant and not sell as many PPV as he does now. They use hype and no the tickets won't sell very well even with the hype Pacquaio _Mosley results are still not officially posted by showtime. Floyd didn't fool anyone he is not that smart and manny well he and Bob Arum has you fooled here you are in your hypocrisy talking as if Bob Arum was more trustworthy than Schaffer all promoters are liars they wouldn't be good promoters if they don't how to lie.
@JustineManaco You can't trust any of the promoters, true.
I think you're right that Floyd "used" a Manny fight to sell his. But I don't think that the PPV figures and MGM ticket sales are connected. Tickets for the fight were absurdly expensive. Even if I lived in Vegas, I would've stayed home to pay for the fight.
@tstarks Its a rumour just like 850k was a rumour. Manny is liked by the media so most of the mainstream stayed off it and 95% of "boxing" fan sites stayed off that story as well as it was negative. That's why you never saw it you have to look hard for these things. Its hard to find a positive story about Floyd you have to dig to get it likewise its hard to find a negative story about manny remember however if Manny really did do 1.3 million buys why hasn't showtime officially released the numbers its now what 6 months past the fight still only Bob Arums numbers not the official ones? Floyd did 1.4 mill against Mosley Manny does 1.3 million the numbers don't add up maybe I am wrong but you see the numbers a re not official
Addendum to above.
TR is comprised of many key figures; the most prominent being Arum himself. But as Tim can probably confirm, Todd duBoef does not believe anyone in boxing is served best by brandishing numbers.
I can presume that the practice of doing so will end with Arum's administration.
Frankly, I believe GB's sweetheart deal with HBO and Hayman/Mayweather is and always has been the source of a vast panoply of misleading numbers.
I am not saying TR is not guilty of the same (all promoters are) but there are differences.
There is, in boxing circles, a pretty fair assumption that the myth of 'Money' Mayweather is not just being sustained by whatever means necessary, it is necessary to sustain because of the athlete-centric business model that was constructed between these parties.
In the short run, everyone made money. In the long run, when the athlete falters, over-values himself, goes off the rails (think Tyson) and/or eventually retires, Boom.
The game is over...with the business and the fans in a mess.
TR is made up of 'boxing' people. GB is at it's core a banker and a boxer in a media deal.
The differences lie in appraoch. TR want Boxing to be the brand, not a Boxer. They believe that boxers, no matter how great (Ali, Sugar Ray, Manny) come and go..but that boxing stays. And that is there goal. To make boxing a brand, like the UFC; not a fragile fight by fight endeavor.
I think the numbers are not being released because the 'myth' is being protected. That is what happens when your model panders to any one fighter.
this is why im saying hypocrisy runs in this article justifying it against mosley/pacquiao. boxing fans deserve more than this! skepticism is no more than like blood test accusation against pac with less evidence.
but to compare Top rank and GBP, GBP had the history of proclaiming bogus ppv reports.
what people need is official unquestionable ppv sell. and i think we deserve something more than just gathered speculative results.
@Fe'Roz I think it's about both in the sense that I don't quite remember this level of skepticism for Pacquiao-Mosley.
You're right about TR vs. GB. GB is improving in bringing their fighters along, though.
@76ChrisP I'm done arguing with you about this. You want to paint me as some kind of "everything Mayweather does sucks" guy when I've clearly praised vast swaths of his career. When Mayweather has beaten the top man at his weight, I've praised him. I hope it's fulfilling for you to defend Mayweather at all costs against his mean old critics, real and imagined, but if you do it here anymore I won't be responding.
My point is Judah WAS the undisputed welterweight champion when the fight was made which gives lie to the notion that Floyd is out to avoid the best fighters in the division. Yes Judah did lose to Baldomir...but I noticed your link ranked Cory Spinks as the top guy @ 154 but he lost to Judah. I wonder if Floyd had fought him (and not De La Hoya) you won't be making similar excuses in an effort not to give Floyd his due
@76ChrisP Come off the "Mayweather as martyr" shit, man. Judah wasn't the top guy at 140 because he got beat by fucking Carlos Baldomir, of all people. You're really reaching to make Mayweather's record seem better than he is if you ignore THAT.
I've given Mayweather credit for a lot of his wins. His wins at 130 and 135 are stellar. His wins at 140 are mostly terrible. His wins at 147 in his last two fights impress me, as do the De La Hoya win and the Hatton/Judah/Baldomir wins, to a lesser extent. I give him credit where I believe credit is due. You, by contrast, are trying to claim silly b.s. like "Judah was the undisputed welterweight champion when the contract was made to fight Floyd," as if NOTHING happened in the meantime that could affect his status as the top guy, like, say, losing to someone like Baldomir.
Cory Spinks? who lost to Judah...i bet if Floyd had fought him you still wouldn't give him credit. How was Judah not the top guy? he was the undisputed welterweight champion when the contract was made to fight Floyd.
@76ChrisP@140 No, Oscar wasn't the top guy at 154 when Floyd fought him: http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine%27s_Annual_Ratings:_Junior_Middleweight--2000s
And I didn't say Judah wasn't a "legit contender." You need to look at what I wrote carefully. I said he hadn't faced anyone who could arguably be called the best in his division. Judah wasn't that.
I haven't fallen for any popular line against Floyd. I've been making this case for years. You're the one, I'm afraid, who's bought the line that Floyd fans make that Floyd tried so very, very hard to fight the best in his division and it was everyone else's fault. All I know is, every. single. top. fighter. had accomplished the feat I mentioned over that span OTHER than Floyd. I don't think that's a coincidence.
I meant De la Hoya wasn't a top guy
I'm sorry but I think you've clearly fallen for the popular line against Floyd. For example are you saying wasn't the top guy @ 154 when Floyd fought him? are you saying beating Judah who was the undisputed welterweight champion before he lost to Baldomir (also beaten for Floyd) wasn't a legitimate contender? I would agree with you that @140 Floyd didn't fight the best but it takes two to make fight and I don't recall hearing anyone of these guys calling Floyd out. Even Hatton's Dad @ the time said his son wasn't ready for Floyd
Floyd's fans never blame him for anything. From the time he fought Castillo until the time he fought Mosley, he had not fought a single person who could credibly be considered the best man in his division. That's, like, seven years. In that same time period, everyone else who was a top fighter managed that.
Sorry, but your man has ducked a lot of fighters. A lot of them. You can make whatever excuse you want about any individual match-up that didn't happen, and maybe some of them are true -- but the common denominator in all of those interactions is that Floyd didn't manage to do something everyone else managed.
When Floyd wanted to fight Cotto way back when they were @ 140 Arum said Cotto wasn't ready. U know the relationship between Floyd and Bob so Floyd isn't going out his way to chase any of his guys. Do u seriously think any of these have a chance with Floyd? Mosley was coming off one of the best performances of his career (plus nobody else wanted to fight him then) when he was utterly schooled by Floyd.
Floyd fought Marquez as way to set up the fight with Pac bcos Pac had so much trouble with Juan. The only reason why the fight between Floyd and Pac hasn't happened is bcos Pac won't take the test and Floyd can't be blamed for that
@76ChrisP Mayweather sells without Pacquiao, but I think he could do double what he's been doing lately if he fought Pac. And Pac has faced plenty of people Floyd hasn't faced or wouldn't -- Cotto and Margarito come to mind. I do think that facing Mosley and Marquez at the junctures he's faced/facing them is lame, though.
Why would Floyd need Manny to sell fights when he's selling millions of PPVeven before Manny came along? Have you noticed that Pac tends to pick opponents that Floyd had recently beaten? perhaps you think this is just a coincidence? the sheer stupidity of some of these pacfans never ceases to amaze
there's your contradicting himself on drug testing for the umpteenth time
@nashingun Mayweather and Pacquiao are both smallish but full-sized welterweights -- hell, Pac's power is WAY ahead of Mayweather's at welter. Mayweather picking on Marquez at 144 is no different than Pac doing it. I think you have to be a pretty blind fan to think any differently.
forgive me to argue with your opinion tstarks, but mayweather is irrelevant in the lightweight fights pacquiao made with barrera, marquez, morales... dont tell me marquez is old and irrelevant along them mexican legends. mayweather is way ahead of their weight. its like fighting your small brothers enemy bullying small kids. the only reason we're having this conversation is pac's so extraordinary he went too far ahead of his respected division and beat everyone.
mayweather only sold good number ppvs against dela hoya, and mosley with both opponents popularity to drag interests. infact, it was dela hoya who brought the amount of sell, not mayweather as dela hoya was the cash cow that time.
try not to give floyd too much credit more than what he can bring.
i think its the pacquiao fights thats being bought in bundles then sells them in the internet tripling the price. what im so fond about the mayweather fanatics is they threat floyd jr as if he's pac then justifies his action adopting pac charms. lol i never saw mayweather sell big numbers except dela hoya and mosley. mind you, it was dela hoya brought that ppv sells not mayweather, and on mosley they are both americans. nothing to give credit to mayweather alone. about pac, in the cotto, dela hoya, hatton fights, they earned high ppv sell even without mayweather around. thats a fact. floyd only came out as he see opportunity to earn money. from retirement he pretends he want a pacquiao fight but 3 years later we only see mere excuses and more demands. what's this... a freak show?
Those tickets are for sale, not for GBP or Floyd to purchase or keep and then decide later if they want to sell it. Unless they act as scalpels too but why do that small, degrading for a promoter or boxing superstar job? Floyd dont need to buy those tickets unless he wanted to fool you by pretending the tickets were all sold out. Bottomline is they didn't sold out at the live gate. Be it GBP or Floyd's fault, people just didn't turn out at the live gates as they used to be. If people are going to watch, people are going to watch. They're going to ask for tickets. Some tickets are way too pricey than they first came out but people still buy them. Another ignorant thing to say was that the tickets were expensive anyway. Boy, tickets for boxing superstars like Floyd and or Pacquiao are usually expensive. Promoters aren't that dumb to make the ticket prices sky high this time with Ortiz-Mayweather. And even if they were expensive as they were really supposed to, high-rollers, businessmen, celebrities, and rich people all have been trooping to Vegas to watch super fights even before you and I learned how to type shit.
btw, you already mentioned shaffer and arum are mere liars so i rest my case, this ppv numbers arent sufficient. we need atleast HBO to post their report to one credible site like the ring mag.
im sorry to butt in again, but the only reason floyd sells ppv is he's an american. if floyd came from uganda or argentina you may not even waste your time on him.
Note that Arum did not release Pac/Mosley figures officially as Top Rank Promotions (unlike Floyd/Ortiz numbers released by GBP/MP) he blurted them out in an interview...why? cos Bob being as a lawyer knows it's a crime for companies (which include promotions) to publicize false figures but as a private individual (not TR) he's technically not breaking the law
@JustineManaco Pacquiao's tickets typically are a great deal less expensive, yes.
When prices are equal (for, say, PPV) Mayweather typically does better numbers.
I also think that the people who are into Pacquiao vs. the people who are into Mayweather are a bit more passionate. A more passionate fan is going to want to see someone live more, especially when tickets aren't as expensive.
OK, tickets at the live gate are expensive. But aren't Pacquiao fights also? Pacquiao's not even American but he sells out at the gate. Don't tell me Floyd's gate tickets are $100 more than Pacquiao's? And lastly, people who buy those tickets and watch live are businessmen, high-rollers, people with money who can afford those tickets unlike common folks like you and me. You're right, even if I had the money I wouldn't pay to watch either man live. But many people can and will. It's Vegas, dude. Question is why didn't they they all come and fill the arena? Floyd's always posturing that he'd fight the midget Pacquiao but he wouldn't. That's just it bro. Peace!
? ok, let me give it to ya... "anonymous HBO official's word for it"? i dont know what is... but i think you should know what you're talking about. and if you justify the number 1.25M just because one or two writers dig it, well my guess is even a mere trash talks can be brutally awarding with floyds rant over pac and the rest of the clown media jump over it. come on, get real man! you know what we're talking about here, try make some solid numbers, not base on other writer or site or anonymous HBO official's word.
@nashingun "My report?" You've lost me. I think I'm hanging up now.
using Top Ranks mosley/pacquiao ppv to justify yours? cheaply saying you're report is as bad as theirs.
@nashingun I don't understand -- are you accusing me of something here?
as the writer portrayed this not even official. but dont try to accuse the other side while you're guilty of same crime. man, thats plain hypocrisy. i never said arum aint doing this. why would the writer even point fingers on mosley/pacquiao fight, to justify this accumulated numbers? nah, i for one dont buy shet.