- The Examiner's fleet of search engine-optimizing writers don't always write in the most clear fashion. No surprise there. Nobody who was a party to the offending interview in question thinks Pacquiao said anything about killing gay people, no matter how ambiguously Granville Ampong wrote it.
- Ampong deserves blame for writing it the way he did, but so too do people who overinterpreted Pacquiao's supposed remarks when there were never any quotation marks around it coming out of Pacquiao's mouth.
- Pacquiao does oppose gay marriage, and that is enough for some people to label him homophobic. Some other people think Pacquiao is just like a lot of other people in opposing gay marriage, and those people don't catch as much flack. But what caught my eye originally was him invoking Sodom and Gomorrah. You know, the part of the Bible where, as widely interpreted, God burned down a town over some gayness. If you basically think the world will end because of gay marriage, I guess time will tell, and you're entitled to that view. But it does come off like you're scared of gay people, however justified you believe your view to be. (Although maybe I misinterpreted what he meant by saying "Sodom" and "Gomorrah?")
- Some people were offended about Paquiao criticizing President Obama, in however roundabout way he did it, which doesn't make it wrong but isn't super-wise of the congressman from the Philippines. There's this idea that Pac somehow isn't entitled to criticize the leadership of this country just because he's not from here that's unjustified to me. On the other hand, it's a PR misstep for Pac to think that it isn't going to tick some folk off. 'Merica, f**k yeah!
- Pacquiao holds Bible study 800 times a day or something, and talks about his religion all the time, but says he still hasn't read Leviticus. Wouldn't the people going to Pacquiao's Bible study with him be better off learning it via an online diploma mill or something?
- The supposed double standard about Pacquiao's wrongdoings getting more media scrutiny and condemnation compared to Floyd Mayweather's just narrowed. This was a full-blown media storm, complete with Pacquiao being banned from shopping malls and national news organization attention. Mayweather has earned harsh media treatment, as I wrote here, but Pacquiao's aura of good guy sheen is starting to chip away.
- Floyd Mayweather is either a cheap shot artist or has somehow seen the light. We know he's not above cheap shots in the ring, of course, but his decision to endorse gay marriage the same day Pacquiao was catching heat for it doesn't jive with him just a few weeks ago getting all upset about Miguel Cotto sleeping in a bed with a man, or before that calling his own father a "faggot," or even before that calling Pacquiao himself a "faggot." Now, an instant conversion in light of Obama now supporting gay marriage, prompted by Jay-Z supporting gay marriage (after calling people "faggots" in music all the time) could be the latest chip to fall in the hip-hop-ish community taking cues from a black president they idolize and overcoming said community's long-term affiliation with homophobia... and it'll spread to boxing as a whole, another community where homophobia is rampant... hmmm, no, the timing is fishy. Probably a cheap shot.
I should probably have my head examined for wading into this, but in defense of Pacquiao not having yet read/studied Leviticus, I don't think it's all that uncommon among Christians to focus on the New Testament to the relative exclusion of the Old. Leviticus largely deals with the law. In the Pauline conception of Christianity the advent of Jesus Christ to great extent abrogates the law-- i.e., faith not works, love God with all your heart; love one another as I have loved you. Of course, this doesn't stop people for dipping into the Old Testament as a guide or a blunt instrument with which to beat their neighbors over the head, but because the New Testament is considered to have, in a sense, largely superseded the Old in terms of law, it is not uncommon for Christians to focus both initially and more fully on the New Testament.
For anyone desiring more information on what is meant by the Pauline conception of Christianity, the oldest surviving books in the New Testament are from Saint Paul (Paul's letters), and it is widely believed among scholars that Paul's youthful familiarity (born in Tarsus) with the Greek Mystery religions (in which the initiates take part in the dying God's death and rebirth) coupled with his knowledge of Judaism (and perhaps Gnosticism), inform Christianity as promulgated by Paul, who, as it happens, never actually met Jesus except in visions. It is also worth mentioning that this form of belief promoted by Paul (and his many adherents) was largely in effect at the time the four Gospels were afterwards written and was seemingly at odds with "the Jerusalem Church," (James, Peter, and other of Jesus' apostles,) who continued to be observant Jews who adhered to the Law.
Good books on the subjects include, "The Five Gospels: What did Jesus Really Say" by Funk, Hoover, and the Jesus Seminar ( 30 noted scholars, 300 Fellows, scholars version with verse by verse analysis of the four Gospels plus Thomas); "The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity, Hyam Maccoby (a really good exegesis, especially concerning the rift between Paul and the Jerusalem Church and an equally valuable depiction of Jewish context, both historical and religious, at the time of Jesus.
Again, I should probably have my head examined for writing this-- especially on a boxing blog (albeit a smart one), but I don't find it unusual for a devout Catholic/Christian to have not read Leviticus.
As for Mr. Pacqiao's views, I think there are two quotes worth considering in this context. The first is (paraphrased) from Jesus, "Give unto to Caesar what is Caesar's, give unto God what is God's," which sounds a great deal like separation of church and state to me. No one can force a church to marry people against their will; the state cannot withold equal protection under the law.
And finally, perhaps particularly apt given Mr. Pacquiao's one profession, the John Stuart Mill adage on Liberty: "the rights of your fist end at my nose."
I was soooooooo trying to stay out of this!!! However, having already made a couple of small replies, I might as well...
Regarding #7. I was pretty amused by Mayweather's tweet about supporting gay marriage due to the timing. I wasn't surprised by it, though, and I didn't see it as a radical departure. Floyd says a lot of stuff for shock value, and I've always kind of heard obnoxious sensationalism in his comments more than actual homophobia. That doesn't make it right, especially because so many people (just no one I know...) look up to him. But it struck me as just one more difference between Floyd the person and Floyd the cartoon character.
As for hip-hop, kinda the same argument, but slightly tweaked. I don't listen to all that much hip-hop, but in a lot of cases (I can't think of an exception, but I'm not an expert on the genre) rappers aren't actually referring to gay people when they call people faggots. Eminiem got in trouble for that way back in the day, and he clarified that it wasn't meant as a reference to gay people. I don't have the quote at the moment... Anyway, whether or not he should or should not have chosen that word, I didn't take it to be homophobic even before I was aware of the controversy. (Actually, because I first heard it on the radio, I assumed that it was the other F word that was being edited.)
(To state my bias, I am in favor of same sex marriage and other issues of LGBT equality. I'm a pretty big fan of civil rights and equality in general.)
@beccapooka A lot of the hip-hop guys say their use of the word faggot isn't related to gayness, but it's not very convincing to me. That's a longer debate.
Anyway, maybe Floyd means it. I'd like to think he did. This could be another instance of Floyd coming at something from an impure motive (fucking with Manny on gay marriage/fucking with Manny during negotiations with drug test bs) and it actually maybe having a positive effect anyway (other boxers taking Mayweather's cue on having a more accepting attitude toward homosexuality/drug testing becoming more prominent).
AMPONG IS A VERY SHREWD PERSON. Everyone should be advised not to take an eye or entertain him. He just wanted to catch the attention of the world. Manny Pacquiao had again succumbed to his foolishness. "To hell with you Mr. Ampowng"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mr.Ampong want to be notice by using Pacquiao name by his bias way of writing. Ampong intention is only one to destroy Pacquiao.
What's above more, the Laws of God or the Laws of Men? I don't hate gays or lesbians nor against them but marriage is only for a man and a woman. No such thing as gay marriage as a moral thing to do. Men are so notorious to making up things and then declare them as the right thing to do even if they know its contradicting God. But ofcourse this only applies to people who acts like the people in the bible who were "cleaned up"...
@aragornn23 Oh, I dunno. There probably a lot of Biblical laws you don't follow, right? I mean, you don't go stoning women who are married and not virgins, I guess?
Broader discussion, I suppose, and not my area of expertise. Just a thought.
@tstarks I didn't really directed that comment to you. It's for those who are, you know..Anyway, yeah, its a broader discussion in which we should leave it at that..Nice article though, pretty straight forward in your own way.
haters of manny pacquiao made this fake story that manny hate gays and gay marriage. pacman has many gay friends and some gay relatives in the country philippines and gays in the philippines are very beautiful they look like a real girl's beauty. pacman is not a racist person nor a person who is always talking bad things against to other people. haters of manny pacquiao are disturbing his trainings. haters of manny pacquiao wants pacman to not focus to his trainings. they really dont know how very good person pacman is.
haters of manny pacquiao made this story that manny hate gays. pacman has many gay friends and some gay relatives in the country philippines and gays in the philippines are very beautiful they look like a real girl's beauty. pacman is not a racist person nor a person who is always talking bad things against to other people.
@KalieTan No, it was based on stuff Manny said or that they thought Manny said. Nobody "made" a story just to go after Pacquiao because they hate him.
Mr. Ampaw is the creator of all this bull****.that`s what i crab looks like.he don`t deserved to write in a respectable column like the Examiner.
@mervin caras The Examiner is not widely thought of as being a respectable online outlet (the D.C. print edition has some respectability to it, tho).
Tim, regarding "number 3", Pacquiao used the two ancient towns as euphemism for sodomy (it's tabooed in the Philippines, and considered a felony in neighboring Malaysia, Indonesia and the Moroland) , having gay priests is fine but letting them sodomize the innocent ones is something else. As for making comments on gay marriage, he's been too much of a nice guy who just wouldn't refuse an interview by another Filipino - who had a good history of destroying the Donaires. Saying that he's in favor is denouncing his faith, and losing moral ascendancy that would blast his political ambitions to smithereens, should he decide to quit boxing in the near future. Saying otherwise brought us to where we are right now.
The bottom line, is he should not trust a journalist for simply being Filipino (giving the feeling that his statements would only be available locally). Ampong is more than that - he is a pay-per-click business whose betrayal of the Donaires show that he's forgotten how to be a Filipino (loyalty, sympathy, hospitality and all those warm stuffs) . As for all netizens and the gay community, let's close the book. And to have forgiveness, justice is a must - and we know exactly who to place on the justice seat!
@Ian_C_Besina Hmm, I don't know why he wouldn't just say sodomy. It's fewer syllables, and only one letter more than "Sodom." In fact, that's where the word comes from.
Anyway, thanks for the info on Ampong.
Yes Manny as most Catholics and Christians are opposed to gaymarriage, but not to a gay or lesbian per se. Gay marriage or same sex marriage lower the dignity of MAN as compared to animals who have retained the male and female mating.
Better die a thousand death than to renounce my faith! The Stronger your faith in Gog the stronger the Devil will destroy you.
@leonuragon Search for Gog yielded this: http://www.samruby.com/Villains/Gog/GogBuilding.gif
i don't think the sodom & gomorrah came from his mouth as well. also, it's not unusual that he hasn't read leviticus yet. he has only started bible studies around the time of the marquez fight. that's just 6 months ago. normally, people start with the new testament and then proceed to the old. and when you say bible study, it's a study. not just reading. so it will take time.
@rasec Sodom and Gomorrah had quotation marks around it, as if Pacquiao spoke it, and he hasn't said he didn't say that part.
So assuming that's true, he knows Sodom and Gomorrah, so he knows something about the Old Testament. Ah well. Maybe he'll get to Leviticus one day.
@beccapooka pac has been a long-time catholic but most catholics don't really practice reading the bible consistently and in its entirety. manny has just recently been enlightened by biblical christianity and like i said, it will take a while to read the entire thing if you're really serious in knowing and understanding it. he probably knows part of the OT already like the famous stories like Sodom & Gomorrah but 6 months is not enough time to read and study the whole bible. like tim said, he'll get to leviticus one day.
when someone deviates from the norm of society they said you need a psychiatric evaluation. how come gays are not treated by psychologist? it is but my humble opinion that being gay is a psychological disease that needs to be treated. arent you sick when you have sex with the same gender? dressing and acting like men when you are a woman. i just cant understand why psychologist all over the world consider being gay as normal. is it because the gay disease has spread all over the world? or they are afraid of the outrage of the gay community?
Ro 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Ro 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. Ro 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Though I officially am "for" gay marriage, this whole meltdown has been pretty funny. While I do think it's pretty lame of Manny, a shitload of famous people and athletes probably have the exact same beliefs. So what I've taken from it myself is that Manny's PR team needs to shut him up and quick. Stick to canned answers like the old pre-cocaine Oscar de la Hoya, shellfish comments notwithstanding.
@PatrickConnor Difference being, Pat, those other famous people and athletes don't possess the political power to push their beliefs into law.
Difference being, Pacquiao is not a congressman in the US. So whatever his opinion is, it holds the same weight as that of other celebrities. Would you give a damn if he proposed a law banning gay marriage in the Philippines? Probably not, same as you don't care if little girls get sold to the highest bidder in Afghanistan (arranged marriage). So people should chill the heck up and let everyone to their opinion (right or wrong). Just for disclosure, I'm ok with gay marriage.
@florencioR @PatrickConnor I do give a damn - on both counts. This isn't the first time I've taken exception to one of Manny's biblically-inspired (biblically insipid?) positions. I was, and am, far more bothered by his stance on the Reproductive Rights Bill.
Know that I'm not American. I have as much investment in the domestic politics of the United States as I do the Philippines, or Afghanistan, or Turks and Caicos. It's a matter of human rights, which I don't see as an issue contingent on international borders.
And no one's trying to censor Manny. This isn't a free-speech issue.
@PatrickConnor I guess I can't really say what my view is without getting in trouble with my day job.
I'm just looking forward to Manny riding a float in a Gay Pride parade in an effort to restore his image.
@JasonTO You are one of the smart ones, JasonTO.
Pro-tip: When claiming membership in a majority demographic, particularly one that carries with it immense political power, trying to frame yourself as the victim of oppression at the hands of an infinitesimal and historically persecuted minority group not only makes you look delusional, it also makes you look like a tremendous blowhard.
persecution is expected in following the will of God, sometimes it pays not only image, but also life, to those who stand in their faith.